Pure Assassin

[Ed Cakes]

Well, I'm thinking of building a straight assassin character, and wanted to float some skill ideas.

Pretty simple, actually...

During character creation, all points into DEX and SPEED.

Skills:

Piercing weapons (5), Light Armor (1), Lore (1).

I'm thinking of maxing piercing weapons up to 32 exclusively, with all stat points into DEX and SPEED as per the creation phase. I'd wait until hitting that mark (or getting near it near it), then go to the Thieve's Arcadia, and have Zeblin train me in Moving Silently and Hide in Shadows. Eventually, I'd start pumping points into Alchemy.

And that's about it . . . seems nice and compact? Any thoughts/reprimands?

Ed Cakes

[Kreador Freeaxe]

It's an interesting build. You'll certainly want to carry a bunch of various flasks with you, as they'll help with tricky situations. Demon oil to limit access of opponents and Charm Cloud when you find it to get some of them to fight on your side. The lack of defense (aside from higher Speed and Dex improving your AR) will be tricky in a lot of places, so you'll want to practice the old-fashioned kiting techniques. Once you have the Double-strike feat, though, piercing weapons are great. Westwillow will be tricky with that build, but the prize in the far Eastern end of it will be very nice for you, as well.

[Ed Cakes]

How does kiting work with a melee character? Or are you simply referring to hitting then running until the double-attack skill comes up again?

Also, do you suggest ever pumping more into the light armor skill, or is it best served only to negate the associated penalty for not having it at all?

I'm eager to try this out...it goes against everything I've come to think of when making a rogue (usually non-combative, master lockpicker etc...).

With this character, eventually, I'm hoping to sneak up on people and stabby stab them before they can do anything about it.

Thieve's Arcadia is going to be a pain in the butt, too.

[Rowanas]

If you want a super assassin, go for bows. I had great fun picking Zeblin off from afar. The "so called" Master Assassin couldn't see or hear me, so I weakened him with arrows and finished off with a Soulpiercer. It's much more effective than piercing weapons, in all fairness. 3x damage bonus, without ever having to step out of the shadows.

[Painted Lady]

How are you going to get into locked chests without Pick Locks? Would you be better off looking for a Lore ring than putting your precious skill points into Lore?

Also, there really isn't any point in putting more than one point into Light Armor. That skill just offsets the penalty for use.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

How does kiting work with a melee character? Or are you simply referring to hitting then running until the double-attack skill comes up again?

Also, do you suggest ever pumping more into the light armor skill, or is it best served only to negate the associated penalty for not having it at all?

I'm eager to try this out...it goes against everything I've come to think of when making a rogue (usually non-combative, master lockpicker etc...).

With this character, eventually, I'm hoping to sneak up on people and stabby stab them before they can do anything about it.

Thieve's Arcadia is going to be a pain in the butt, too.

Thieve's Arcadia is one of the places where Charm Cloud will come in very handy. Let the Shadow Assassins take each other out (or at least weaken each other so you can provide the deathblow). Also invisibility potions and/or haste are helpful. And don't forget to switch to Parry mode while closing distance on opponents with ranged attacks.

Yes, with melee kiting, I meant running around while you wait for the feat to refresh. With my piercing weapon character, as soon as I had the feat, I went off looking for the groups of outlanders and got them all chasing me. When my feat would refresh, I'd step to where one of them was in melee range, double-strike him (pretty much instantly dead), and then start running around again. I'd try to time it to kill them in about the same place, so if they dropped loot, it would all be in one area. Of course, once your skill is up in the 30s, you'll be getting the feat every few steps, so it's less of a problem.

[Ed Cakes]

If you want a super assassin, go for bows. I had great fun picking Zeblin off from afar. The "so called" Master Assassin couldn't see or hear me, so I weakened him with arrows and finished off with a Soulpiercer. It's much more effective than piercing weapons, in all fairness. 3x damage bonus, without ever having to step out of the shadows.

What's interesting is that I've been doing a bow assassin, and I just stopped after Thieve's Arcadia out of frustration that I couldn't hit anything at distance. Bows skill is at 23, I believe, but in the darkness and over distance I could barely hit anything at all. I did my best to drag people into the light, but they seemed to be able to hit me no problem.

I finished the level and killed Zeblin, but it was pretty aggravating. That is when I decided to try the "Pure Assassin" approach.

What am I missing, though, regarding the bow skills? I'd use a lantern or torch but I can't do that while shooting arrows.

Ugh.

[Kreador Freeaxe]

If you want a super assassin, go for bows. I had great fun picking Zeblin off from afar. The "so called" Master Assassin couldn't see or hear me, so I weakened him with arrows and finished off with a Soulpiercer. It's much more effective than piercing weapons, in all fairness. 3x damage bonus, without ever having to step out of the shadows.

What's interesting is that I've been doing a bow assassin, and I just stopped after Thieve's Arcadia out of frustration that I couldn't hit anything at distance. Bows skill is at 23, I believe, but in the darkness and over distance I could barely hit anything at all. I did my best to drag people into the light, but they seemed to be able to hit me no problem.

I finished the level and killed Zeblin, but it was pretty aggravating. That is when I decided to try the "Pure Assassin" approach.

What am I missing, though, regarding the bow skills? I'd use a lantern or torch but I can't do that while shooting arrows.

Ugh.

Several things can help you hit better with bows. First, the Focus Feat ALWAYS hits, so if you're sitting hidden, you can just wait around for the refresh while the opponents wander aimlessly (if you haven't learned Hide in Shadows high enough yet, that doesn't work as well). Never fire at an opponent in the dark without the feat. Second, a nice flask of demon oil can keep your opponents at range and illuminate them at the same time.

[Ed Cakes]

Gotcha'.

So, it looks like a bow fiend may be the way to go, then, instead of stabbing.

Stabbing seems like a lot of fun, though. The thing I dislike in Thieve's Arcadia is when the shadow assassins go "poof!".

No,w with piercing weapons, DEX and SPEED are the prime contributors. What else does SPEED do? Does it contribute to dodge chance?

I forget what the other skill for bows is...or is it only DEX that affects bows?

[Kreador Freeaxe]

Gotcha'.

So, it looks like a bow fiend may be the way to go, then, instead of stabbing.

Stabbing seems like a lot of fun, though. The thing I dislike in Thieve's Arcadia is when the shadow assassins go "poof!".

No,w with piercing weapons, DEX and SPEED are the prime contributors. What else does SPEED do? Does it contribute to dodge chance?

I forget what the other skill for bows is...or is it only DEX that affects bows?

Bow is Dex and Concentration. Concentration also helps in disarming traps (a useful thing for a rogue-type), and increases your carrying capacity (less than Strength does, but it still can be helpful). Speed increases your armor rating and the damage you can do with a melee weapon. I wish that it worked with Dodge, as well (and I've recommended the adjustment for Book III), but at the moment it doesn't.

Anyway, both bow and piercing are great weapons in Book II. It just depends on how you want to play the character. I had a lot of fun with my piercing weapon character (though she had a great defense in that I pumped her Shields skill way up so she was almost untouchable at range).

[Randomizer]

Speed increases melee weapon damage and improves armor.

Personally I've gone with endurance from the start since with enough health I can outlast fights where I'm getting hit and have resistances to avoid some damage from poison and disease.

You can do unarmed combat and close with targets to kill them, so being able to use parry with piercing weapons will make for an easier character build. Also wearing light armor can easily get you to the point where most monsters can't hit you.

[Ed Cakes]

[/quote]
Bow is Dex and Concentration. Concentration also helps in disarming traps (a useful thing for a rogue-type), and increases your carrying capacity (less than Strength does, but it still can be helpful). Speed increases your armor rating and the damage you can do with a melee weapon. I wish that it worked with Dodge, as well (and I've recommended the adjustment for Book III), but at the moment it doesn't.

Anyway, both bow and piercing are great weapons in Book II. It just depends on how you want to play the character. I had a lot of fun with my piercing weapon character (though she had a great defense in that I pumped her Shields skill way up so she was almost untouchable at range).[/quote]

That's what I was looking for...as I plan on not investing in disarm traps, I'd rather go with the Dex/Speed that compliments the piercing skill, and get the armor benefit.

One other question . . . do attribute stats stop giving returns at a particular threshold (e.g. no more returns on Dexterity after it gets to 40, or anything like that?)

Thanks all for the help!

[Kreador Freeaxe]

One other question . . . do attribute stats stop giving returns at a particular threshold (e.g. no more returns on Dexterity after it gets to 40, or anything like that?)

Thanks all for the help!

There are thresholds (though I don't remember the specific math) where your Dex is so high that your To-Hit is 99% on every opponent, and your Armor Rating is high enough that opponents only have a 1% chance to hit you. In terms of damage increase for your melee, I don't know that there's any limit.

Some of the more nuts-and-bolts folks here have, I believe, posted a lot of the necessary numbers.

[Painted Lady]

What's interesting is that I've been doing a bow assassin, and I just stopped after Thieve's Arcadia out of frustration that I couldn't hit anything at distance. Bows skill is at 23, I believe, but in the darkness and over distance I could barely hit anything at all. I did my best to drag people into the light, but they seemed to be able to hit me no problem.
-- snip --
What am I missing, though, regarding the bow skills? I'd use a lantern or torch but I can't do that while shooting arrows.

Ugh.

I have always found the Ranger type character to be impossible to play without Predator Sight. You have to be able to see something in order to shoot it.

The time I played a Ranger, Predator Sight simply didn't show up at all until late in the game. So, I ran around and did all of the outdoor type quests until I finally got it. Then I tacked the sewers, Westwillow, etc.

[Ed Cakes]

Well, I'm at a crossroads.

Piercing weapons is at (32), and I took the 1 point in Light armor.

All my other skills I found books for, and they are Alchemy (1), Mercantilism (1), Move silently (1), Skullduggery (1), and a book for Light armor putting that at (3).

I'm a Nefarious Rogue. My DEX is almost (40) and SPEED is also about (40). I've not purchsed armor or a new weapon (saving for skills) but I can't get into Thieve's Arcadia without lockpicking, can I? I was hoping not to invest in those rogue skills so that I'd have more to go into others. But that's not a choice for me, is it? I just have to invest 3 skill points into lockpicking to make it through the Thieve's Arcadia, then pay to level up to 8 in Hide in Shadows and Move Silently.

Other thoughts? I'm really enjoying this character so far. My double strike refreshes every four turns, and there isn't much that can hit me right now (Mire Trolls being the nastiest thing I've fought so far).